On his blog Roldy describes himself as "a Brit right slap-bang in the middle of the USA" - meaning Missouri - and as being of being average in all sorts of ways. "I suspect I might be special," he concludes. His real name is Laurence Lily and when he isn't hanging astute and witty observations on Comment Is Free articles he makes documentaries with his wife Lucy Neiland - good ones too, by the look of it.
What do I like about England? Dave Hill asks…
When faced with difficult questions I typically ask my wife. The horrible alternative here was to start mumbling something about pubs, cricket and Lord Nelson.
My wife is a social anthropologist and professional observer of humanity. She once said to me, “There is often a great difference between what people think they do, what people say they do and what people actually do.”
This was one of the profoundest things I had ever heard. Unfortunately for her, since she said it I have decided to not think, say or do anything, but simply to ask her instead. (Serves her right for being such a smarty-pants.) There is another reason to involve her: her job is the reason I am no longer living in England but in Kansas City, Missouri.
“Well what do you think you like about England?” she asked. Anthropologists throw questions back just like psychologists.
“Definitely the pubs…”
Surely on solid ground here…
“But you like the pubs over here?”
“Oh yeah…”
“What do you like about them here?”
“The range of drinks, the cheap home brewed beer, always in frosted glasses. Food is good and always on. Bottomless coffee and soft drinks…the amazing service…fellow drinkers are friendly and…”
“Do you like them as much as the pubs in England?”
“Different…”
“In what way?”
God help me I couldn’t think.
“I guess I have a sentimental attachment to English pubs.”
“Maybe we should concentrate on things you found tangibly better in England?”
“Oh Ok…”
“Go on then!”
“I can’t think of anything”
“Surely you can.”
“Well I suppose there’s the footie.”
“Don’t you watch that here?”
“Well yeah. All the games are on TV and my friend has a massive High Definition screen. I watch in the pub with some fellow enthusiasts too. It’s fun here I suppose...”
“What do you do in England?”
“Well I cannot afford Sky so I’ll try and find a pub with a decent view, but you have to avoid the ‘no surrender’ types…I hate the crush at the bar...often I just listen on the radio. But, you see, I can go to live games at home...”
“But you go to live games here…”
“But at home I can go with my Dad to see Grimsby…although it is a five-hour drive…costs twenty-five quid…the team is shite. And it is always freezing cold in Cleethorpes…”
“And here?”
“I watch the KC Wizards: great stadium…ticket is nine quid…they play nice football and have a chance of winning the league… But it is not the same...”
“Why not?”
“ I mean - they’re called the Wizards! And they have a stupid mascot and an organised cheering section. Just not right...”
“Hmm but don’t Grimsby have a nickname and a mascot?”
“The Mariners! And they have the Mighty Mariner mascot! He looks like a leprous fisherman and scares the children…”
“Hmm”
“But it’s just better in England ok?”
“Ok.” We had nothing really conclusive for Dave Hill yet.
“So what do you think I like about England?” I asked my wife. It was time for the anthropologist to do some anthropologising…
“Well I’ve seen you having to work harder to get the right healthcare here...”
I didn’t need much more prompting.
“You’re f****** right I have. First we had to have two months before the health insurance would cover us, so we knew if we got ill in those two months we’d be f*****. I had to buy travel insurance and lucky I did. We found out you were pregnant and needed that one scan and some lousy tests and the bill was $6000! I’m still fighting to get the travel insurance to pay all of that. I’ve had bewildering conversations about ‘unrecognised discounting contracts’ between the hospital and the underwriter. It will never end.”
“Right, and then the medical cover itself?”
“Shocking. We have to pay $390 a month and your employer pays about $700 per month and we pay a deductible on top for each visit. You also have to choose a plan from an unintelligible range of options. One thing is clear: we can only afford to go to the clinics the insurance company approves of. So there goes the choice. Then there is a ton of paperwork to do before a doctor can even look up your nose – and when he did look up my nose he prescribed a steroid inhaler and a six-week sleep study! Just for a stuffy nose!”
“So do you think…” she began. But I was on a roll.
“…And the maternity care! They may have 21st century technology but their attitudes are straight from the 1950’s! The woman lies on her back, is pumped with drugs and then the doc comes and pulls the baby out, first with big pliers then, if that fails, with a knife. So we try to find a midwife. The insurance company doesn’t even know what a midwife is. They react as if am asking for voodoo! Eventually we find the only independent midwifery clinic in the City, with just two midwives, and it is like joining an underground political movement! Unbelievably they tell us it is illegal in Missouri for a lay midwife to attend a homebirth. Apparently people without insurance just turn up at ER, then try and dodge the huge bill afterwards…"
“And in England?”
My sister had her first baby at the same time in England, which meant I could compare.
“My sis has the choice of a birthing centre, homebirth or hospital. She says midwifes are standard: highly trained and very independent. It seems she got more of a real choice than out here and without the money worries. Irritating really…”
“So maybe what you really like and miss about England are institutions like the NHS?” surmises my wife, a little too triumphantly.
“The NHS? Nah. It’s a shambles! No, I’m sure what I really like about England is something to do with Admiral Nelson or village greens. Something like that...”
Good stuff!
Posted by: molasses | August 03, 2006 at 01:16 PM
Nice one Roldy,
It's a hard one this isn't it? Maybe it is the indefinite nature of Englishness that makes it a bit good.
Posted by: Ali McNab | August 03, 2006 at 01:31 PM
The harder you look at it the harder it becomes to see.
Posted by: molasses | August 03, 2006 at 02:28 PM
Nice piece Roldy. However, you are making the same mistake that almost every Big Englander so far has made (and which I intend to address in my piece): you are confusing England with Britain (or even with the UK).
Because there's nothing in there that you don't also get in Scotland, in Wales, or (I'm sure) in Northern Ireland.
Ok, except cricket. :-)
Posted by: Martin McCallion | August 03, 2006 at 04:02 PM
Mistake? Are you sure? I think most English people conceptualise England in this way. It is usually only Welsh or Scottish folks who feel the need to differentiate, presumably for their own reasons of national identity.
There is no need for a rule that says what you like about England has to be exclusive to England. I know Nye Bevan was Welsh. If you want to say what I like about England is that it has learnt a Welsh or Scottish sense of natural justice then so be it. That is misleading though and really quite unimportant.
You can't "own" culture. Although people love to try. And it is tiresome when they do.
Posted by: Roldy | August 03, 2006 at 04:22 PM
Wow that was a bit strong. I've been in America too long.
It's just I knew someone would say something like that...
It is interesting that England has very little that is exclusively "English". This is good I think. I find when the Americans and French go on about how exceptional they are it just smacks of insecure parochialism. Whoops I've turned into a troll. No wonder people think English people are arrogant.
Posted by: Roldy | August 03, 2006 at 04:42 PM
It wasn't too strong. But I wasn't trying to "own" culture. And yes, it is a mistake.
My point is that it's depressingly common for English people to refer to "England" when they mean "Britain" or "The UK". That tends to annoy people from the other nations of the United Kingdom, because it gives the impression of belittling them by careless language. Compare it, if you will, with the old "man embraces woman" cliche, that was used (and still is) to support casual sexism in language.
You said, "There is no need for a rule that says what you like about England has to be exclusive to England." That's perfectly true, of course. But my interpretation of Dave's intent with the "Big England" series (and I may completely misunderstand his intent, of course) is that he wants people to discuss the good and bad about England. Strongly implying (to me, at least) _exclusively_ England.
Posted by: Martin McCallion | August 03, 2006 at 05:31 PM
Is there anything good and bad about England that is exclusively English? Isn't that artifically limiting what England means to people? An identity may be unique but characteristics (the good and bad) rarely are.
I have never lived in Scotland so would find it very hard to tell you what characteristics define an Englishman that don't also apply to a Scotsman. Does that mean I am unable to say what England means to me?
Posted by: molasses | August 03, 2006 at 06:01 PM
Yeah I think Dave was interested in is this idea of an emerging "English" identity, as seperate from the UK, which things like the world cup make us think about.
To tell you the truth I thought about mentioning Nye Beven as being Welsh in the article but decided against it. I agree with the sentiment in your "man embraces woman" example. After all there is no valid reason to put men over women. But disagree when it comes to national identity - firstly because culture is never homogenous/simple enough to warrant this type of care (you would just be splitting hairs forever as everyone has their own opinion), and secondly, unlike with men over women, there IS a pragmatic reason to put England over Scotland - England is bigger, has more people, and is both historically and presently more powerful. (Sorry - there I go again trolling).
The UK is 83% English remember.
There are only slightly more Scottish people than there are people who describe themselves as from an ethnic minority in the UK.
Posted by: Roldy | August 03, 2006 at 08:18 PM
I'm sorry Martin, maybe it is this American coffee. I think they should start putting Ritalin in it.
Interestingly, over here in America you get way more kudos being Scottish, or Irish than being English (they don't know what being Welsh means, I think they think it is some sort of drama school.)
Posted by: Roldy | August 03, 2006 at 08:28 PM
molasses: It may be artificially limiting what England means to people, but I was going by the "Big England" brief. If I can quote from the email that Dave sent me: "The subject is What I Like About England (or not, as the case may be)"
Of course there's more to identity than that, but my point is that almost all the contributors so far (not just Roldy, it's just his post that I happen to have commented on) have been referring to good things that aren't exclusively English. And that's fine, and maybe there's nothing that is exclusively English within Britain (except cricket, obviously). But I just get annoyed by the apparent inability to tell the difference -- or at least, to make the distinction.
Roldy, you said you "disagree when it comes to national identity - firstly because culture is never homogenous/simple enough to warrant this type of care"
Can't agree with you there. Firstly because we're not talking about culture (or not solely about it): we're talking about nationality (which includes culture). Or at least, we are now, as I see it. We weren't at first, but I seem to have introduced it.
Secondly because I think it's always worth taking care with language to ensure you say precisely what you mean (not that I'm claiming I always achieve that, and this tiny comment box is certainly a barrier to doing so).
If the UK is 83% English that means that it's 17% not-English. And does that "people who describe themselves as from an ethnic minority in the UK" include people who describe themselve as from an ethnic minority in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland? Or is it just England?
Posted by: Martin McCallion | August 04, 2006 at 12:45 AM
Ah, but you spoke of the US as much as you did of England. Well, not really the US, but rather a teeny bit of it known as Missouri. It doesn't sound as if Missouri is particularly representative of the US for comparisons sake though.
@ Ali - Do I understand that while both your parents are Scottish, you yourself are English? How does that work? I mean, if your parents are Scottish, wouldn't that make you Scottish as well? Sorry for the ignorance.
Posted by: littlebear | August 04, 2006 at 01:53 AM
I'm something better - I'm British and European.
Posted by: Ali McNab | August 04, 2006 at 09:20 AM
This is always what happens when you start talking about national identity and characteristics.
It is also what happens when you make documentaries.
It is impossible to be representative. All you can do is give a considered point of view, and try and untangle your own experience a little. I think that is why I did my article in the style of a conversation, to try to avoid this...
Of course I know that my experience of healthcare provision might be different if I was in Massachusetts, but I am not, I am in Missouri.
But I still think the contrast is a valid one. Despite regional variations England has a primarily public system of healthcare. America has a private one. I seriously used to argue that America's system would be preferable to ours. Really I did. But now I am living in America I find the privatised healthcare system disgusts me. It makes me feel physically sick it is so alien to certain values that were never challenged before.
I'm sorry. America is a great country but not perfect.
At the moment I am making a film about home birth in America - a complex issue.
But I think the reactions from the people who hold the power are telling. In America, where 94% of births are overseen by private obstetricians, we see the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists lobbying hard for greater legal restrictions and prosections against midwifery. That is their reaction to the issue. It is adversarial and it is largely about power and money, yet it marches only under the banner of protecting babies (from the foolishness of their mothers).
In the UK the reaction is totally different. It is an open consultation process carried out by the National Institute of Clinical Excellence. It is a 635 page report and it is considered, balanced and sensible. It tries to find a balance between women's choice, the best uses of resources and safety. And it gives the government and health service a blueprint to take forward in the best interests of birthing mothers.
This is just one example of a pattern of difference I see repeated constantly.
Now in theory I can see advantages of the American approach. But when I see it happening in practise it makes me feel like throwing up.
Sorry for the Scottish thing Martin. I was just being cheeky. You are right of course to point it out!
But I still think, when you actually look at what people do and say in real life, nationality is really a very weak influencer of culture.
Posted by: Roldy | August 04, 2006 at 02:51 PM
Roldy, thanks for the thoughtful reply. And yeah, well, I'm not too pleased with my country right at the moment either. But I'll try to say on topic. The problem, I think, for home birth (or any medical care )in the US is that we tend to be so litigious. My doctor is quick to order hugely expensive and needless tests for the least little thing in order to cover his bottom line. It's annoying. The good news is that it isn't written in stone. It's a mess and needs to be fixed,though, fo sho'.
Posted by: littlebear | August 04, 2006 at 11:41 PM
The England / Britain thing is a tricky one. Clearly one of the best things about being English is being able to wind up Scottish people by saying things like "Hurray for Andy Murray, another great victory for England!" I lazily refer to myself as English when I mean British, but if I was being accurate I would say I'm a Londoner first and foremost. When I venture out of the M25 and go to those weird places (i.e. most of the rest of the country) where everyone is white and people talk about A roads and B roads as if it is interesting, I start to freak out. It's like being on another planet.
Posted by: Marie | August 11, 2006 at 08:44 AM